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Post by MS7XWDC on Jul 26, 2007 15:09:36 GMT -5
No penalty for 'guilty' McLaren 26 July 2007
FIA World Motor Sport Council has decided not to penalise McLaren for suspended chief designer Mike Coughlan's possession of Ferrari documents. Although the WMSC found the Woking-based outfit in breach of the sport's rules through Coughlan's actions, it concluded that the team has not used the information to its advantage.
Thus it supports McLaren's claims that none of the technical data was used to benefit the MP4-22, which has won half of this season's races. The FIA World Motor Sport Council produced the following statement after this afternoon's hearing:
"The WMSC is satisfied that Vodafone McLaren Mercedes was in possession of confidential Ferrari information and is therefore in breach of article 151c of the International Sporting Code. However, there is insufficient evidence that this information was used in such a way as to interfere improperly with the FIA Formula One World Championship. We therefore impose no penalty.
"But if it is found in the future that the Ferrari information has been used to the detriment of the championship, we reserve the right to invite Vodafone McLaren Mercedes back in front of the WMSC where it will face the possibility of exclusion from not only the 2007 championship but also the 2008 championship."
The WMSC's findings support McLaren's avowal that Coughlan and Nigel Stepney acted alone and the council now calls upon them to defend their actions with a view to suspending them from working in motorsport.
The statement coninued: "The WMSC will also invite Mr Stepney and Mr Coughlan to show reason why they should not be banned from international motor sport for a lengthy period and the WMSC has delegated authority to deal with this matter to the legal department of the FIA."
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Post by i3337m1k3 on Jul 26, 2007 15:28:56 GMT -5
Yes they should have penalized! They had documents! What did they expect a Mclaren wing to say "Made by Ferrari" on the side or something?
I don't enjoy the drivers losing out points, but the only reason they got in a winning position was of stolen documents so it really makes no difference.
Personally my theory is. If Hamilton or Alonso had gained a huge advantage in Germany ie. Mclaren 1,2 and Ferrari no finish, they would have taken points away to get the championship closer for higher viewer ratings and what not. But they left it alone now that Ferrari is on the up and Mclaren are on their back foot. Hate to say it but thats what I think.
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Post by MS7XWDC on Jul 26, 2007 15:39:09 GMT -5
i have no clue if Mclaren used the info. that's NOT the ponit, IMHO.
proving they used the info is nearly impossible.
proving they obtained info illegally was easy.
punish them for that.
teams now are free to steal info, as long as they use it without detection.
rubbish !
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Post by mschumi on Jul 26, 2007 21:28:56 GMT -5
word to that
mclaren should've been penalised, but if they are gonna use in the future, data that was on that 700 pages document, they are gonna be droped from the championship
but still lol, coughlan did bought that info, and did share with some other mclaren workers, like the ferrari floor used at melbourne wich mclaren heard from stephney and told fia, or other things
fia are beging to think crap....
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Post by MS7XWDC on Jul 26, 2007 21:42:53 GMT -5
Ferrari: lack of McLaren penalty ‘incomprehensible’ Ferrari have hit out at the FIA’s decision not to punish McLaren after the British team were found in breach of the International Sporting Code for possessing confidential documents belonging to their Italian rivals.
The FIA’s World Motor Sport Council opted not to impose a penalty as it could find no evidence that McLaren had made use of the data, which was found in the hands of the team’s chief designer, Mike Coughlan.
Ferrari, however, said they found it “incomprehensible that violating the fundamental principle of sporting honesty does not have, as a logical and inevitable consequence, the application of a sanction,” and added that they believe the decision “legitimises dishonest behaviour in Formula One and sets a very serious precedent.”
In a statement issued after Thursday’s hearing, Ferrari continued: “The decision of the World Council signifies that possession, knowledge at the very highest level and use of highly confidential information acquired in an illicit manner and the acquiring of confidential information over the course of several months, represent violations that do not carry any punishment.
“The fact that Vodafone McLaren Mercedes was in possession of such information was discovered totally by accident and, but for this, the team would continue to have it. This is all the more serious as it has occurred in a sport like Formula One in which small details make all the difference. Ferrari feels this is highly prejudicial to the credibility of the sport.”
Ferrari added that they will continue with the legal action already under way within the Italian criminal justice system. The team are understood to be pursuing cases against both Coughlan and sacked Ferrari engineer Nigel Stepney, who is alleged to have provided the material in question. Both men have also been summoned to appear before the FIA.
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Post by MS7XWDC on Jul 27, 2007 9:08:41 GMT -5
Renault boss Flavio Briatore says he was baffled by the World Motor Sport Council's decision Thursday which failed to penalize McLaren despite finding them guilty of possessing Ferrari documents.
The flamboyant Italian compared the decision to the way Pontius Pilate washed his hands of the decision to crucify Jesus Christ.
"I don't understand what happened because to begin with you would only gather the World Council if you had proof," he tells the Gazzetta dello Sport. "Otherwise, if you don't have proof, you avoid such a meeting.
"If the FIA admits to have established possession of Ferrari material by McLaren, then why is there no retribution? This verdict reminds me of Pontius Pilate."
"If someone had some advantage from the possession of the material, it would have been fair for him to pay the consequences.
"These weeks we've all heard and read what happened, and surely this story has been very damaging for the business of Formula One."
The Italian press joined Briatore in condemnation of the decision.
"Ferrari mocked," read a headline in the Gazzetta dello Sport. "Incredible decision by the FIA. McLaren found guilty but go punished."
"A shock verdict. The FIA recognise the fact that McLaren violated the sporting conduct code by having in their possession confidential Ferrari documents, but they are absolved. So spying is not shameful."
A front page editorial called the decision a "scandalous verdict and freedom to spy" and further questioned the validity of the Formula One championship.
"Imagine you have had your car stolen and then it is found in the garden of a man who lives near you. You inform the police and they verify the theft. But because the thief shows that he hasn't used the car, he's cleared of any crime. That is exactly what happened to Ferrari.
"It's a scandal, the latest in the world of sport which every now and again gives us another reason to doubt it, and that continues to use different measures to address similar situations, enough to create an ethical emergency that destroys and neglects."
The Italian newspaper La Repubblica said FIA were unwilling to punish McLaren and interfere with the sport which is enjoying an upswing in popularity due to the emergence of Lewis Hamilton with the Woking-based team.
"How can it be?. That team had 780 pages of Ferrari documents showing completed projects and they are cleared.
"At first sight the decision is incomprehensible, but the FIA's magnanimity can be easily explained."
Former Ferrari driver Mika Salo said the scandal didn't surprise him adding that spying on your rivals was nothing new.
"When I was driving for Ferrari we always spied on McLaren,istening their radio traffic," he told Finnish newspaper Ilta-Sanomat. "After every practice session I had in front of me, on paper, all the discussions Mika Hakkinen had had with his engineer."
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Post by mschumi on Jul 27, 2007 13:16:51 GMT -5
If mclaren wont be punished, than all the teams can have from every other team a 1000 pages document, and know all the car flaws, all the new desings they will come, and do it before them, or do it better, and export things
this is bullcrap...maybe some spy is in the FIA, because they are bloddy idiots!!!!
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Post by afroman245 on Jul 29, 2007 15:54:53 GMT -5
800 pages, 11 teams, 22 drivers, 1 screwed up confrence. I mean, they breached no.151, they stole documents, and they could have implemented the parts of it if the fia hadnt called upon them like weeks before, giving them time to remove the parts. I mean, why didnt they call upon them the last minute, dont give them a chance, march right into the garage, and inspect the car. This is total bull... Well, at least Ferrari are getting the right justice on Stephney and Cougney
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Post by MS7XWDC on Jul 31, 2007 12:45:16 GMT -5
McLaren's title prospects were plunged back into doubt when Formula One's governing body agreed an appeal court should have the final say on the 'spy saga' gripping the sport.
More StoriesMark Webber on Spy Scandal Max Mosley (pictured), president of the International Automobile Federation, granted an Italian request for a review of last week's controversial FIA decision not to punish McLaren for unauthorised possession of Ferrari information.
An FIA spokesman said the appeal hearing, in front of a panel of at least three judges, was likely to be in Paris at the end of August with leaders McLaren again facing sanctions ranging from a reprimand to being kicked out of the championship.
McLaren, with 22-year-old British rookie sensation Lewis Hamilton two points clear of double world champion team mate Fernando Alonso, lead Ferrari by 27 points with seven races remaining.
The next grand prix is in Hungary on Sunday.
McLaren have suspended chief designer Mike Coughlan after the Briton was found to have some 780 pages of Ferrari technical information at his home at the beginning of July.
The Mercedes-powered team had argued Coughlan was a disgruntled employee acting in isolation and the FIA's World Motor Sport Council decided there was insufficient evidence that the team had benefited from the data.
Ferrari said that decision "legitimises dishonest behaviour" and Luigi Macaluso, the president of the Italian Automobile Federation, wrote to Mosley on that team's behalf to seek an appeal.
He said Ferrari, who were not allowed to appeal in their own right, had not been able to present their side of the story at the last hearing.
Mosley, in a reply published on the FIA's website, agreed they had a case.
"Exclusion or withdrawal of points did not seem appropriate if it was really just a case of a rogue employee illegitimately acquiring information for his own purposes," he said.
"Your letter suggests that the outcome may have been different if the council had given Ferrari further opportunities to be heard beyond those that were in fact offered.
"Because of this and the importance of public confidence in the outcome, I will send this matter to the FIA court of appeal under article 23.1 of the FIA statutes," he added.
Mosley said he would ask the court to hear both Ferrari and McLaren as well as "any other championship competitor who so requests" to determine whether the first decision was appropriate.
If not, he added, they should "substitute such other decision as may be just."
Ferrari, who are taking legal action in England against Coughlan and in Italy against their own dismissed employee Nigel Stepney, welcomed the FIA's decision as "a sensible one.
"The FIA has correctly noted that Ferrari, as the injured party, should be able to enjoy all the rights of a party in a trial and that was not the case in the audience of the world council," a spokesman said.
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Post by MS7XWDC on Aug 1, 2007 8:38:04 GMT -5
Mark Webber:
"As I understand it, from what I've read and what I've been told, it wasn't just technical design details in the dossier that Mike Coughlan had, it was details about how the team was being run operationally.
If that's true, and if the dossier was seen by somebody else, then it's a massive deal for Ferrari. It's not something the FIA could police like they could a physical piece of bodywork."
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Post by duc5 on Aug 20, 2007 12:09:23 GMT -5
Mclaren should be stripped of all championship points and suspended from racing for the rest of the year, perhaps even a few races next year too. Ferrari for the championship.
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Post by mschumi on Aug 20, 2007 17:10:17 GMT -5
13 sept is around the corner
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Post by MS7XWDC on Sept 12, 2007 9:00:17 GMT -5
Coming off a one-two finish on the home turf of their bitter rival, McLaren enter a week of uncertainty which could derail everything they've worked for this season.
Lewis Hamilton, who saw his championship lead shrink to just three points over teammate Fernandlo Alonso, admitted on Sunday that the decisions taken this week in a boardroom could all but end his F1 campaign.
"If you sit down and think about it, I could have what I've worked for and what all the team have worked for, taken away," Hamilton told ITV moments after the Italian Grand Prix. "And when you really think about that, you think 'Wow - I could be out of a job next weekend and then what happens?' It was going so well, and then you just get this big knife that cuts off your blood line."
McLaren have been asked to appear before the World Motor Sport Council on Thursday to answer to new allegations related to the spygate affair involving Ferrari. Originally, the hearing was to have been an appeal of the previous verdict in which the council found McLaren guilty of possessing secret documents belonging to its rival but did not punish them because there was no evidence that they benefitted from having those documents.
However, last week, the FIA said it had uncovered new evidence which the council needed to consider. Based on its previous ruling, the council could elect to impose the so-called 'death penalty' on McLaren - banishment from the 2007 and 2008 championship.
It's more than likely that the team could have its constructors points wiped out while Alonso and Hamilton retain their points in the drivers championship. A letter from FIA president Max Mosley indicated that no driver would be penalized for their co-operation in the spy scandal investigation.
That was little consolation for Hamilton, whose accomplishments this season have been unlike any other in the history of an F1 rookie.
"I never actually thought I'd be sitting here saying I hate something about formula one but the politics and people wanting to be bigger than others is just incredible," he said. "I would say to you all that Ron (Dennis) has always been very, very loyal to me, has always given me the opportunity and he has always been such a great man to me."
There were suggestions in Italy over the weekend that one of the ways McLaren could dig themselves out from under this mess would be if Dennis himself were to resign from the team. That is something Hamilton refuses to consider as an option.
"He is going through a time right now where I think some people are trying to bring him down and right now the best thing for me is to give him support."
As for Alonso, whose relationship with McLaren has been portrayed as anything but cozy this season, he refused to be drawn into any sort of speculation.
"I have nothing to say," the Spaniard said after winning Sunday's race. "Next Thursday we all will know more - in four days, I will wait to answer anything."
The two time world champion also admitted that winning the drivers title was much more important to him than the constructors crown.
"It means a lot to become world champion, but, at least for me, it is not special if around the team there are problems," he explained. "For me, it doesn't matter because in the end it is good to be the drivers' world champion and the constructors' - from a driver's point of view - it is not really a big factor."
Alonso quickly added that his comments should not be taken as a further sign that his relationship with the team is deteriorating. Instead, he said he was simply giving his honest and personal assessment of where his priorities lie when it comes to the title.
"I enjoy every point that we do on the track, for us, for the team, and we are leading quite comfortably the constructors' championship.. But I still prefer to win the drivers' [title]."
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Post by MS7XWDC on Sept 12, 2007 12:32:28 GMT -5
The "new evidence" against McLaren which will be considered by the World Motor Sport Council on Thursday is reportedly 166-pages in length.
According to The Times newspaper, the dossier centres around a collection of email, phone and text messages between McLaren drivers Pedro de la Rosa, Fernando Alonso, Mike Coughlan and Nigel Stepney.
While the exact details of what was in those communications is not known, the FIA is expected to try and link calls made between Stepney, the former Ferrari engineer, and Coughlan, McLaren's chief designer, with communication between the McLaren drivers.
Stepney and Coughlan ignited the spygate affair when a 780-page secret document belonging to Ferrari was discovered in the McLaren designer's possession back in July. However, the new evidence which is to be discussed on Thursday reportedly goes back even further.
Members of the World Motor Sport Council along with McLaren have been given copies of the document in preparation for the hearing. The Times reports that McLaren will argue that the email and text communication does not conclusively show that Ferrari information was passed between their employees and ended up on their car.
what a JOKE !!!!!!!
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